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Thread: Bastion of Twilight Strategy Notepad

  1. #21


    Quote Originally Posted by Vikrum View Post
    Amg they hotfixed meteor on Valiona. Grounding totem no longer owns it. We are doomed!
    Usually we kill the messenger. Shhhh....

  2. #22
    VI Member Bauser's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Seattle, Washington


    Quote Originally Posted by Boheem View Post
    Usually we kill the messenger. Shhhh....
    He can tank at least 5 messenger killers, or 2 dragons, either way he's kind of a big thing

  3. #23


    Rofl Bauser. Geeze you and Boheem. I never stop laughing!

  4. #24


    Quote Originally Posted by Bauser View Post
    He can tank at least 5 messenger killers, or 2 dragons, either way he's kind of a big thing
    Forgive Bauser, he is only slightly jealous.

    Have my babies Vik?!

  5. #25


    Quote Originally Posted by Ansum View Post
    Forgive Bauser, he is only slightly jealous.

    Have my babies Vik?!
    Ok, ok, Ansum. YOU, Bauser and Boheem crack me up!

  6. #26


    Just want to say that Heroic Halfus...what a doozey. I like it! Feels good to be back in this part of progression.

    I know I got very frustrated with myself last night feeling I was under-performing, and I think a few others did as well. Mistakes are going to happen when you pull a boss and 5 seconds later it feels like the world just exploded on your computer screen.

    We just need to get back to the drawing board, formulate a solid strategy (now that we know what to expect) and really make some progress on this guy.

    Let's get it!

  7. #27


    So I am one of those people that when nights like last night happen, I just can't stop thinking about it and trying to come up with ways to adjust. I have come up with a few ideas and spoken to Kil about a few things on my lunch break. Pair that with the fact that I've done a good bit of research today and these are my findings/thoughts for better or worse.

    • I and Kilwenn both agree that our very first strategy seems to be the most solid way of going about it.
    • We are in fact releasing more Drakes at the start then what most people do...I think.
    • Kil had suggested waiting even longer for dps to open up. I also agree with this as well. My only question is would this interfere with the enrage timer? I don't think it would personally. One reason is the next bullet.
    • I think we should tank everything at the whelp cages and just allow the melee to move as they see fit. Meaning getting out of the way when you see fire on the ground. The thing that makes this the hardest (besides 10 things going on at once) is Harkle's hellfire. But it's too strong to not do, so we just need to deal with it.
    • I was thinking of speccing into Hand of Protection (thus lowering it's cd from 5 min to 3 minutes). Reason being is we could set an amount of time before we agree to have all dps go nuts. Once that time is reached Kilwenn uses TW and calls for the attack to commence. I will then HoP him, giving him 8 seconds of zero threat. Once that falls Kain then hits him with glyphed salvation resetting his aggro to 0 for the next 10 seconds. A few seconds after this I can salv Bauser. Kain can HoP me to drop my Halfus stack. At this point we've had well over 25 seconds of serious AE dmg, that should be enough to finish off the Whelps. Also by having the dps wait I can feel free to target Halfus and just let my AE overflow onto Whelps and Time Warden. So that even Ansum shouldn't be able to pull off when he engages. This is for sure my fault, but last night I was concentrating so hard on spreading my AE threat that I think I was shooting myself in the foot. Obviously this could present a problem with us dropping stacks. I am having a hard time getting an idea on the timings of things but I think we should be ok. I get to 8ish, Kain HoPs me. I get to 4 or 5, Kull takes him. Kull can get a much higher stack, use some cd's, and pray to God that by the time his gets too high that mine has fallen off, my HoP is back up, or the whelps are dead and everything is under control. I know that is all very subjective but that is all I can think of atm. If things just aren't working like this (due to stack count) we can just take out the HoP'ing of Kilwenn and just rely on Salv.
    • Last but not least. This I am seeing is probably one of the most stack encouraging fights we might see. Everyone is either doing 3t/3h/4dps or 2t/4h/4dps. I truly feel we'd be fine by having Boheem heal. If anything we can do the 2/4/4 to get further into the fight and see what the dps requirements are going to be.
    • Oh yeah forgot this part. I am thinking of changing my spec for this fight as well. Getting somehwat out of the Word of Glory spec and into a more AE spec. What this will do is increase my consecration damage by 40%, but also increase the duration of consecrate. I really feel this will go a long way for my AE threat.

    I feel this just gives us a much more controlled start. We are really at a disadvantage having zero MD's or ToT's. So as said earlier we really need to get some good lead time.

    That's all I have for the moment.
    Last edited by Vikrum; 01-20-2011 at 02:26 PM.

  8. #28


    Some great ideas and points Vik. First, to elaborate a bit on some of them:

    Our initial strat (AE whelps first) is definitely the way to go -- as some of us were discussing after the raid last night, in spite of the same overall health as a single drake, we get all those damage boost from doing AE damage. Furthermore, the logs showed that the whelp pack does, on average, the same outgoing DPS to a tank that the drakes do, so there's no singular advantage to killing a drake first in terms of survival either. Thus, Whelps first for sure.

    As for our release method, we absolutely have no choice but to immediately release the Whelps, Nether Scion, and Storm Rider. Without Whelps, Scorching Breath on Heroic does 96000 damage to the entire raid over 8 seconds, which is virtually unhealable with all the other random effects. Storm Rider of course allows us to interrupt the Nova, so we need that. And Nether Scion seems required based on our limited testing without it per Halfus' super high DPS.

    This leaves us with only the Slate Dragon and Time Warden. Obviously we can get away with leaving the Slate unactivated for most if not all the fight, so the only leeway we have is with the Time Warden. The difficulty there is that the benefit of the Time Warden is fairly difficult to enumerate in a meaningful way. We know it doubles the cast time of various Proto-Behemoth abilities, but he still uses all the same stuff (Fireball, Barrage, Scorching) so there's no getting around that. That said, it's certainly worth trying, as one of our primary issues is "incoming spike damage" on tanks and that would help a lot.

    Kilwenn should be fully capable of dropping his own threat with both Invis and Mirror Images I believe, so unless you truly lose nothing beneficial to tanking, I wouldn't suggest speccing for HoP.

    Your last two points tie a bit into some ideas I had last night, so I'll detail them below.

    1. Damage Boost Effects on Halfus

    See this log segment for the issue.

    Essentially, there are moderate to large gaps of time where we have no 8% Spell Damage debuff applied to Halfus, which not only reduces incidental damage, but most importantly, lowers the damage of things like Kilwenn's AE and perhaps most importantly, the damage (and thus heals) from Bunny's Atonement. There is absolutely no reason we shouldn't have a 8% Spell Damage Curse up on Halfus full-time from the very beginning of the fight, and while I understand part of the responsibility for this falls on my shoulders as the raid leader, this is absolutely something that should be on your minds at all times (in this case, it happens to be Harkle): "Is a buff/debuff I can apply needed in X, Y, or Z place and is there a benefit to take the responsibility myself rather than let someone else do it?"

    It's the same reason I get on Boheem's case for not casting Faerie Fire when I'm not tanking or when I'm likely on a different target than he is. Another case where you guys aren't thinking stuff through and are just being led blindly, waiting to be told what to do.

    Here's a hint: If you have trouble remembering to think about these sorts of things, USE AN ADDON!

    PowerAuras, WeakAuras, SatrinaBuffFrames, Pitbull, sUF, EBB; there are countless addons that can, in some way, indicate to you when your target or focus is missing a particular debuff or debuff-type. For example, I know immediately when I switch targets whether it has my primary debuffs, because I spent 15-30 minutes and setup WeakAuras to easily indicate that to me. I'm also intelligent enough to know that using 1-3 GCDs to add some insanely strong debuff (armor, spell damage, physical reduction, whatever) is FAR more important than the 1-3 GCDs I'd use to DPS or otherwise smack something. All of you should make the same considerations and PRO-ACTIVELY prepare and setup your interface to provide that sort of useful information.

    Beyond that, THINK about stuff, especially when it's clearly difficult content we're trying to learn (such as Heroic Halfus). In this case, Harkle should have realized after only a couple attempts that our strategy meant no body was individually DPSing Halfus, and thus the only other effects to increase Spell Damage are from Boheem (when he's not healing) and only when he single-target attacks Halfus and even then, it only lasts 12 seconds. You could use a single GCD to boost spell damage on Halfus for 5 minutes, which in turn boosts everything everyone else does.

    The fact I have to write 4 paragraphs about this is ridiculous; some of you sure LOOOOOVE talking about server rankings constantly, as if that is the true measure of everything or only thing of importance. Yet these sorts of issues are what is really important -- I DO NOT want to see people read this, shrug it off, and make the same mistakes again in a few days time.

    Take responsibility for your own ability, and the first step to that in this game is your UI. It doesn't matter the role you play, the more information you have available to you, the better.

    Ok, enough of that tangent...

    2. 3 vs. 4 healer and 2 vs. 3 tank

    Glancing briefly at our logs, one interesting note is that in well over 50% of our wipes, the first death was not a tank. Now granted, we tried a variety of strategies and setups and such over the evening, so we can't precisely compare attempt #3 to attempt #18, for example, and make claims about the causes of death in each case since the raid setup, roles, drake releases, tanking assignments, and DPS focus was changing. That said, we can fairly easily see that adding a 4th healer did not significantly increase our survivability, and I think a great deal of that is because of two factors:

    A) Tank Threat

    Again, in over 50% of attempts, the first death was not a tank, which of course indicates either something went wrong and we recognized and fixed the next attempt (knocked off the edge, bad drake pickup, nova cast went off, etc.) OR tanks simply did not have appropriate threat on all applicable targets, and a DPS died to a variety of issues, usually brought on by melee attacks from a drake or whelps. Therefore, in this situations, the additional healing was not a factor in the raid's survival in anyway.

    B) Constant Vs. Spike Damage

    The other reason the extra healing was not a very big factor was that idea of constant damage compared to spike damage on the tanks. Simply put, if we have 10 mobs that could hit for 1000 each every second, that has the potential to be 10,000 incoming DPS, but the law of averages indicate it will be a much smoother curve than being attacked by a single mob that could hit for 10,000 every second. Same max DPS, but the bigger hits will always produce larger magnitude spikes.

    Because of this, due to the sheer number of extremely high damage mobs on the tanks in this fight, tanks are rarely in a state remotely close to constant damage, and instead are almost always in drastic spike swings between low and high HP. This greatly lowers the time frame in which a successful heal from any healer can land (since if a heal doesn't land within the time frame, the tank dies). Once the healer team can withstand all reasonable spikes (that is, the damage is actually healable, versus unhealable such as a quad-hit from 4 drakes or something), additional healing does nothing except to compete with other healing to land for an effective heal.

    In other words, if a tank is down 100,000 HP, even with 10 healers, only the first 100,000 healing will be effective, no matter how fast or how frequent the casts -- the rest is wasted.

    That isn't to suggest that, given unlimited resources and raid slots, it wouldn't always be safer to have 5 healers instead of 3; of course it would. However, in this case, because the damage is so spikey, a fourth healer only truly accomplishes combating other healers for effective casts, rather than truly adding a great deal of additional healing.

    Due to both of the above issues, it will of course depend on the level of his gear, but I think we should strongly consider having Bauser tank this fight, thus using a 3-tank, 3-healer setup. The benefits are fairly obvious:

    1. Tank threat becomes as close to a non-issue as we can make it, since we can dedicate one tank to Whelps, one tank to Halfus, and one tank to Drakes during the pull/difficult portion of the fight. This means, for someone like me, if I can focus full-time on Whelps, I can use Berserk'd Mangle early on and have substantially higher threat then when I need to worry about Halfus or a Drake as well.

    2. Spike damage is reduced, by spreading out the damage a bit more. Moreover, DK tank healing is quite significant (example) and would make Bauser a great starter tank for Halfus. Additionally, once the fight is more stable, we can still transition Halfus back and forth between two tanks due to debuffs, and keep the Slate Drake offtanked during stuns without the worry of healing debuffs on that tank (assuming the Drake can be tanked during that time safely, we'll have to see about that).

    That said, the only way we can really do it is if Bauser has full 346 tank gear plus blue gems and enchanted stuff, all that. If so, however, I think that would be a great way to help with the core issues we're having in this fight while not drastically hurting our DPS. I realize Bauser does strong Whelp DPS, but we should easily makeup for that over the course of the fight with Boheem back to DPS.

    3. Spreading Out

    Looking over the recordings of some of our attempts, even when we have the Time Warden activated and are able to dodge Fireballs, not many people bother, or when they do, they simply end up running right into the path of another one coming down nearby. Obviously it's a crazy hectic fight and we're all getting used to it, but one thing we need to do is spread out a great deal more than we are. Yes getting a few more people in an AE heal effect is nice, but it gets completely negated (and then some) the moment we get 1 or 2 people hit by an extra fireball that they otherwise wouldn't need to be hit by. Spreading out makes it far easier to distinguish the effects aimed at you than at others, and allows for a less cluttered screen overall, which will help focus and attention.
    Last edited by Kulldam; 01-20-2011 at 07:17 PM.

  9. #29
    Allowed Visitor Bunny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010


    I agree 100% with the spreading for ranged/healers.

    Hopefully with a three tank setup we can still come up with a reasonable positioning for you 3 or 2 tanks to stand at and both be hit by atonement. It would be helpful for me personally, and maybe to a lesser extent Duux, to have you guys always pulling to the same spot. Not just kind of, but having a very set position as to where the tanks will be, where melee will be, where ranged will be. This would assist with proper atonement coverage and more effective use of healing rains and power word barrier. Healing rains (or sanctuary, or the druid glowy) would be best utilized on the 3 tank area (in my head I imagine you 3 standing with your backs to each other as halfus and the drakes slam down from the sky at you wearing karate kid style headbands and some badass 80's power ballad resonates through the room).

    and hey, if bauser is tanking and least he wont always die first. (probably) =P

    What we do for ourselves dies with us.
    What we do for others and the world remains, and is immortal.

  10. #30


    Is this a fight you would like me to drop Healing Rains till we drop a Drake or two? It will lower my start up DPS but putting it into a rotation should not be to hard.

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