Heroic Lich King Strategy Notepad

[Rofldat]

My worry with Khrash tanking LK and Horror: There seems to always be someone next to/in front of khrash on the traveling line, in which case the horror's shockwave will destroy that person.

Or if a trap comes down, and Khrash start running out, people are running after him, and Horror decides to cast Enrage(thus falling behind the group) then Shockwave toward Khrash, that'll definitely kill off most of the people.

And you might need to get a ghoul after the 2nd horror die, just to give it back a stack it WILL lose from bouncing between you/kath(so if 3rd Horror shows up, the plague will still have enough stacks to kill it).

[Kulldam]

My worry with Khrash tanking LK and Horror: There seems to always be someone next to/in front of khrash on the traveling line, in which case the horror's shockwave will destroy that person.

Or if a trap comes down, and Khrash start running out, people are running after him, and Horror decides to cast Enrage(thus falling behind the group) then Shockwave toward Khrash, that'll definitely kill off most of the people.

Well it will only be the melee DPS that are near him, and I don't see why it would be hard for you three to always ensure you are behind the Horror. Moreover, as mentioned above, we need a few DPS on the initial Ghoul spawns and I think my suggestion of Rofl and Thaw as those two DPS is ideal since you both have the strongest miscellaneous AE damage. Therefore, the only person in melee range with Khrash near the Horror is Katheon, and he's actually attacking the Horror anyway due to Enrage, so there's no reason he'd be in front.

Thing thing to keep in mind with this strategy is Khrash would only be tanking the Horror from the time it spawns until the time the third ghoul is about to get plagued, which if done properly, is only about 20-25 seconds: First Plague goes out 10 sec after Horror spawns, 2-3 sec later is dispel onto Ghoul, 5 sec later first Ghoul dies+bounce, 5 sec after that, second Ghoul dies+bounce, and now I've taunted the Horror as third Ghoul is getting Plague -- 22-25 seconds at most.

If, for whatever reason, it absolutely doesn't work to have Khrash tank the Horror for that time, we can likely just have Thaw & Rofl "tank" the first three Ghouls until the third Plague is about to hit, then transfer that Plague to the Horror. We even have Death Grip for a quick Ghoul movement if needed.

Or, another option is simply have me on both Horror and Ghouls and we can try to use smart snares/stuns/taunts from Rofl/Thaw to separate the Ghouls from the Horror when needed. I dunno about this one, it seems like it would be very convoluted and difficult to repeat in practice, but something to think about.

And you might need to get a ghoul after the 2nd horror die, just to give it back a stack it WILL lose from bouncing between you/kath(so if 3rd Horror shows up, the plague will still have enough stacks to kill it).

Yes, of course we'll use Ghouls after Horror #2 -- that was just left out of the tables since it doesn't matter, the point was to find a safe way to manage Horrors during the transition between Horror #1 and #2.

[Rofldat]

Well it will only be the melee DPS that are near him, and I don't see why it would be hard for you three to always ensure you are behind the Horror. Moreover, as mentioned above, we need a few DPS on the initial Ghoul spawns and I think my suggestion of Rofl and Thaw as those two DPS is ideal since you both have the strongest miscellaneous AE damage. Therefore, the only person in melee range with Khrash near the Horror is Katheon, and he's actually attacking the Horror anyway due to Enrage, so there's no reason he'd be in front.

I'd like to point out you seems to have forgotten Ugra's existence yet again.

If, for whatever reason, it absolutely doesn't work to have Khrash tank the Horror for that time, we can likely just have Thaw & Rofl "tank" the first three Ghouls until the third Plague is about to hit, then transfer that Plague to the Horror. We even have Death Grip for a quick Ghoul movement if needed.

It'd actually be easily done, once the ghouls spawn I can turn on Frost Presence, pestilence and DnD to get the ghouls on me, if Thaw Holy Wrath here to keep the ghouls in place and Khash move away I should easily get the aggro onto me.

[Kulldam]

I'd like to point out you seems to have forgotten Ugra's existence yet again.

Haha woops! Right you are ><

It'd actually be easily done, once the ghouls spawn I can turn on Frost Presence, pestilence and DnD to get the ghouls on me, if Thaw Holy Wrath here to keep the ghouls in place and Khash move away I should easily get the aggro onto me.

The only concern is it will make the first (and perhaps the second) Infest much harder for Fides to manage, but if we can work that out (perhaps as simple as having Gale throw a few chain heals around when LK casts Infest would suffice), than this option would by far be the safest method and easiest to consistently repeat.

[Rofldat]

The only concern is it will make the first (and perhaps the second) Infest much harder for Fides to manage, but if we can work that out (perhaps as simple as having Gale throw a few chain heals around when LK casts Infest would suffice), than this option would by far be the safest method and easiest to consistently repeat.

I've often have 1-2 ghouls on me later into p1, because when Khrash moves the ghouls will move out of his consecrate, but still take damage from my diseases, so even tually they get stuck on me. So this'll simply be something along that line earlier(though with the extra armor from frost presence, it might be less painful to heal me)

One way I can think of to reduce the pain on the healers is to put you me and khrash on the same group, and after fides put his shields on other people, he can time his Prayer of Healing as LK's casting Infest, so after the infest hit it should heal all 3 of us, that combined with Kheelan's ticking HoTs might suffice.

And I can save AMS to soak one Infest while tanking the ghoul.

[Katheon]

Phase 2 Valk snaring shouldnt be much of a problem I'm going to attempt mutilate spec for it. Ive spec into deadly brew which is 100% chance to apply crippling poison anytime I apply instant or deadly poison to a target so now kull can kite horrors without my dazing them from attacks cause anesthetic poison does not cause the deadly brew proc so 2 problems gone there I hope but figured I would throw this out there. Did VOA in this build today 8.6k single target so should be higher on LK Im hoping.

[Kulldam]

Phase 2 Valk snaring shouldnt be much of a problem I'm going to attempt mutilate spec for it. Ive spec into deadly brew which is 100% chance to apply crippling poison anytime I apply instant or deadly poison to a target so now kull can kite horrors without my dazing them from attacks cause anesthetic poison does not cause the deadly brew proc so 2 problems gone there I hope but figured I would throw this out there. Did VOA in this build today 8.6k single target so should be higher on LK Im hoping.

What's this "Mutilate" you speak of?

[Katheon]

QUIET its blasphemy I know I was drunk Ill say.

[Kilwenn]

Phase 2 Valk snaring shouldnt be much of a problem I'm going to attempt mutilate spec for it.

Mutiwhat?!? Are you sure you are still a rogue?

Seriously though, I am looking forward to the change so I can see how the build stacks up. Gratz!

[Kulldam]

Topic 1: Katheon's Combat vs Mutilate

After talking to Kath for a bit, decided to look deeper into the numbers gained/lost by losing the 4% Physical Damage boost from Kath's Savage Combat talent while he's Mutilate. I got the following numbers by looking at damage dealt to Lich King only during our most recent raid night. I then applied the 4% boost Savage Combat would give to all physical attacks to see what the talent would give us in total. The table is long but seen below:

Name	Spell	Damage done	Savage Combat Bonus
Ugra	Melee	10742286	429691.44
	Windfury Attack	3639017	145560.68
	Flametongue Attack	2812356
	Lightning Bolt	2677518
	Flame Shock	2460405
	Lava Lash	1127441
	Lightning Shield	1117786
	Stormstrike	1090998	43639.92
	Stormstrike	567159	22686.36
	Fire Nova	55416
	Retribution Aura	5042
	Frost Shock	2606
		26298030	641578.4
	Total DPS	6134.5
	DPS Gain from SC	150
	DPS w/ SC	6284.5
	% increase w/ SC	2.44%
Rofldat	Frost Fever	9165316
	Blood Plague	7687875
	Wandering Plague	6572411
	Melee	6066057	242642.28
	Scourge Strike	2762338	110493.52
	Death Coil	2652515
	Scourge Strike	1359701
	Blood Strike	1337066	53482.64
	Necrosis	1296281
	Death and Decay	1245045
	Plague Strike	848423	33936.92
	Blood-Caked Strike	842551	33702.04
	Rune Strike	778678	31147.12
	Icy Touch	732370
	Blood Boil	316834
	Unholy Blight	221478
	Retribution Aura	165491
	Electric Discharge	185
		44050615	505404.51999999996
	Total DPS	7119.9
	DPS Gain from SC	82
	DPS w/ SC	7201.9
	% increase w/ SC	1.15%
Thawfore	Divine Storm	10641959	425678.36
	Melee	6499753	259990.12
	Seal of Corruption	5491637
	Judgement of Corruption	3893803
	Consecration	3866502
	Righteous Vengeance	3505010
	Blood Corruption	3309521
	Crusader Strike	2095688	83827.52
	Exorcism	1055844
	Retribution Aura	74379
	Hammer of Wrath	45602
	Holy Wrath	26430
	Judgement	4346
		40510474	769496
	Total DPS	6518.5
	DPS Gain from SC	124
	DPS w/ SC	6642.5
	% increase w/ SC	1.9%
Khrashdin	Hammer of the Righteous	7047795
	Consecration	5688010
	Seal of Command	4394711
	Melee	2479842	99193.68000000001
	Shield of Righteousness	1654659
	Holy Shield	1483196
	Seal of Command	847240
	Avenger's Shield	663082
	Retribution Aura	580282
	Thorns	515847
	Judgement of Command	353261
	Holy Wrath	327668
	Hand of Reckoning	47571
		26083164	99193.68000000001
	Total DPS	2577.9
	DPS Gain from SC	10
	DPS w/ SC	2587.9
	% increase w/ SC	0.38%

This isn't a fully accurate representation of the talent's benefit since the DPS numbers in particular are skewed lower than they would actually be in-game due to combat log continuing even during wipes and such. To that end, I looked at just Phase 1 of the fight to get the actual DPS row numbers (again, damage to Lich King only). Looking at that, we can therefore conclude Savage Combat adds about 366 Raid DPS.

So this leaves the question really of: What DPS and beneficial gain does Mutilate give over combat and no Savage Combat debuff?

For Kath's personal DPS, again I split up the logs showing all damage for all HLK wipes for two nights.

This log is Combat Spec: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/i...pes&boss=36597
This log is Mutilate Spec: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/b...pes&boss=36597

Now, based on nothing else, that shows Katheon at about 420 DPS higher when in Mutilate over Combat. However, due to any number of factors, everyone in the second log has quite a bit higher DPS. This could be due to better gear a week later, better strategy, and of course just more practiced and better play after getting used to things.

Therefore, it's difficult to accurately say that Kath's spec choice was a primary factor in his own 420 DPS gain. More than likely, I'd say the actual DPS numbers were equivalent given everyone else's DPS gains between logs (Rofl 500, Thaw 500, Gale 1000, Kil 600, etc.).

Having said all that, if I had to guess, I'd say, at least for Phase 1 & Phase 2 of this fight using our current strategy (which we won't be changing anytime soon), Combat is likely higher overall Raid DPS versus Mutilate.

Unfortunately there isn't enough data for damage on Val'kyr to see the differences there, but it would be my guess, based on how often target swaps occur between LK and Val'kyr, that the ramp-up requirement of Mutilate would be too high and Combat would allow for better burst damage.

The daze effect from the Combat DPS talent seems irrelevant now that we're killing the first Horror usually within 5-10 seconds of the second Horror spawning, which means I rarely have a kite, and when I do I'm using Piercing Howl anyway, which would already daze both Horrors on purpose. Further, Phase 2 Val'kyr snaring only require a weapon swap + Shiv as Kath mentioned, and since we have Ugra and Kath both snaring, plus me helping once Raging Spirits are down, I don't foresee that as a huge personal DPS loss for Kath.

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Topic 2: Resisting Necrotic Plague

I tallied up our total dispel casts for Necrotic Plague over all LK attempts and got the following:

Total dispel casts: 785
Total failures: 10

This gives us about a 1.27% failure chance historically; it just so happens we saw three in our attempts tonight (keeping in mind that was 27ish attempts total, so a large pool).

It's also worth noting that the VAST majority of these were cast by Fides (97.3%), who has no Hit Rating to speak of. However, as mentioned in Mumble, Thaw has about 10% spell hit, therefore we can conclude that if spell hit actually applied to lower this miss rate, Thaw would be well over the cap with that 10% added.

Furthermore, since the failure rate of 1.27% is statistically fairly close to 1%, I'd say it's safe to assume the common rule of "1% chance to miss" applies here. Also for those curious, no the target of the Necrotic Plague does not factor into whether a resist occurs.

Where does that leave us? Given that 1%, or even 1.27%, is such a low chance of occurrence, AND it only happens in Phase 1 (so a death/wipe isn't a huge deal), I'd actually lean towards ignoring it and sticking with a single dispeller (Thaw), rather than use two and mess with needing two people to be responsible for it. All things being equal, if we are playing properly, we should be able to Battle Res anyone that does happen to die from it with such a low chance. We'll still have Gale setup his Grid/PowerAuras so he can help if we later decide to change it or have two people help, but ideally we want to stick with someone other than Fides so he can focus entirely on healing and Infest, which is still a fairly big factor in wipes.

Other thoughts are welcome, but that's my own opinion on the matter, as fucking retarded as it is to have to deal with.

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Topic 3: Rofl-tank Strategy vs. Phase 1 Duration

This is mostly for Katheon, but I figured out the total duration of Phase 1 before going into transitional phase for our most recent raids to compare the difference in kill time with Kath's spec and our new first-three Ghoul strategy.

Date	Start	Remorseless	Total Phase 1 Time	Raid DPS on LK	Strategy/Setup	Average Time Based per Strategy	Average Raid DPS per Strategy
5/17/2010	19:20:15	19:23:32	0:03:17	44863	Kath Mutilate/Rofl Ghoul Tank	0:03:13	45793
5/17/2010	19:51:26	19:54:43	0:03:17	44863	Kath Mutilate/Rofl Ghoul Tank
5/17/2010	20:51:46	20:55:03	0:03:17	44863	Kath Mutilate/Rofl Ghoul Tank
5/17/2010	21:57:53	22:00:55	0:03:02	48560	Kath Mutilate/Rofl Ghoul Tank
5/10/2010	20:55:53	20:59:44	0:03:51	38260	Kath Combat/Rofl Ghoul Tank	0:03:31	41886
5/10/2010	21:05:18	21:08:29	0:03:11	46272	Kath Combat/Rofl Ghoul Tank
5/3/2010	20:04:02	20:07:21	0:03:19	44412	Kath Combat/Rofl Thaw on LK	0:02:54	50793
5/3/2010	20:28:49	20:31:59	0:03:10	46516	Kath Combat/Rofl Thaw on LK
5/2/2010	19:51:21	19:53:59	0:02:38	55937	Kath Combat/Rofl Thaw on LK
5/2/2010	20:25:34	20:28:12	0:02:38	55937	Kath Combat/Rofl Thaw on LK
5/2/2010	21:10:46	21:13:39	0:02:53	51087	Kath Combat/Rofl Thaw on LK
5/2/2010	21:30:04	21:32:50	0:02:46	53241	Kath Combat/Rofl Thaw on LK

We can see that (obviously) our new Ghoul strategy where Thaw and Rofl spend a good chunk of the opening not attacking LK increases the time of Phase 1 by about 20 seconds. However, we're still fairly consistent now that we're getting used to it (seriously, three different attempts each with a Phase 1 of exactly 3:17 is pretty crazy). Also, it appears there is really no statistical difference of our overall Phase 1 duration between Combat spec vs. Mutilate spec, at least with this small sample we have available.

Therefore, given that we're not going to change our Ghoul/Horror strategy anytime soon as it's working very well and Rofl/Thaw are perfecting it quite well and my survival is much better, I still contend as mentioned above, that Combat is likely the stronger spec for Phase 1 & Phase 2 of this fight in my opinion.